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9/11 Truth - Today's Scene
  • 9/11 Truth - Today's Scene

    Do you think there are more problems coming from inept people, or persons who are deliberately twisting information?



    Honestly, I think what's been done is a very conscious effort to "infect' the 9/11 Truth movement with just a few key points of disinformation.  Just a few key players, a handful of jabs here and there, starting with the break-up of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, where a wedge of disagreement was driven between Jim Fetzer and Steven Jones, when those two weren't a strong enough team to work it out.

    Which leads to the second point.  Once the seeds of certain rifts were sewn, all the control group had to do was sit back and watch as tragic, ego-driven human nature took over.  Given the inside-job reality of 9/11, there was a certain amount of suspicion in most people's minds to begin with -- but then, as intended, the planted seeds of disinformation sparked that background of suspicion into explosive infighting by skillfully inflaming the numerous egos involved. 

    Anyone who reads the 9/11 Truth Action* forum, for example, will see that most if not all of the longer threads there are NOT meaningful research discussions; they are finger-pointing hysteria about who's working for the inside vs. who's being honest, ad hominem tirades overflowing from a seemingly bottomless well of ego-driven self-righteousness.  As these extended diatribes have taken over, 9/11 Truth has taken a backseat, delaying any meaningful disclosure of what really happened.  Which was the plan from the beginning, as far as I'm concerned.  Inflame the ideology of the locals until a larger war develops.  Then sit back and watch as either the military is called in, or any given truth movement implodes.  Either way, history repeats itself, gliding on the greased rails of so many dysfunctional mindsets.

    It wasn't like this two years ago.  Back then we were extra, extra virgins, and the thrill of getting closer to the truth was palpable, and tended to bind us together rather than drive us apart.  The "driving apart" that did take place was between the men and the boys -- the men who wanted to know the truth vs.  the boys/trolls who couldn't handle the truth.

    And that kind of separation was good.  But today it's different.  There has been a planned attack on 9/11 Truth for the past 18 months, and the real issue -- the uninvestigated mass killing of 3,000 Americans on American soil -- has been lost in the commotion.  Until this storm blows over, the serious people will be cutting a stealthier profile, going for disclosure in related areas, breaching the 9/11 conspiracy through the back door, turning the CIA's tactics against them.

    *I want to mention that 9/11 Truth Action is a very worthwhile site.  Street activism still matters, and appears to be doing well.  And the more people putting themselves, and the message of "Investigate 9/11," in full view of the unknowing -- and sometimes knowing -- public, the better.  But the world of 9/11 research has suffered in the meantime.
  • GlassRace wrote:

    It wasn't like this two years ago.  Back then we were extra, extra virgins, and the thrill of getting closer to the truth was palpable, and tended to bind us together rather than drive us apart.

    Yeah, it was like this two years ago, unfortunately. This infighting's been going on for a long time, almost since day one. As you point out, that was to be expected, of course. It is a tiresome drag. I like the Truth Action site - thanks. I think "guerilla warfare" is one of our few options in the face of the corporate-government controlled media. (And it's fun, too) ;)

    The Billboard Liberation Front has been improving the state of drive-by advertising since 1977
    http://www.billboardliberation.com/mission.html

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    Freeway Blogger
    http://www.freewayblogger.com/

    9-11 Truth Action
    http://truthaction.org/

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  • Look at the effort that has been required to maintain the coverup. Which leads one to wonder, did 9/11 go according to plan or was the apparent 'sloppiness' intentional? For example, Bush remaining in the classroom. One of the strange aspects of 9/11 is that it seems like concealment of complicity wasn't the overriding priority. It's easy in hindsight to say the perps had nothing to worry about.

    IMO, the problem isn't with the truth movement (though I agree with some debunker criticisms), rather the problem is with the ability of the political/media establishment to successfully ignore the outrageous issues with the Zelikow/waterboarding (9/11 Commission) report.
  • author said:


    Look at the effort that has been required to maintain the coverup. Which leads one to wonder, did 9/11 go according to plan or was the apparent 'sloppiness' intentional? For example, Bush remaining in the classroom. One of the strange aspects of 9/11 is that it seems like concealment of complicity wasn't the overriding priority. It's easy in hindsight to say the perps had nothing to worry about.

    IMO, the problem isn't with the truth movement (though I agree with some debunker criticisms), rather the problem is with the ability of the political/media establishment to successfully ignore the outrageous issues with the Zelikow/waterboarding (9/11 Commission) report.



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    I can't imagine why they'd have been intentionally sloppy, but there's no doubt that something went wrong with flight 93, which had to be shot down. It's the mainstream media's job to reinforce the cover story, of course. I think 9-11 truthers should stick to what's proveably false with the official version of events and not fight amongst themselves; that's exactly what the psyops agents want us to do. Which "debunker" criticisms do you agree with?

    Returning to GlassRace's comments about infighting, accusations, and finger pointing, check out the following...

    Uncovered: The Rat's Nest of 9/11
    28 January, 2006

    In the CIA Internet Fakes, released 4th August, 2005, we outed a host of websites --either controlled by the CIA/FBI/KGB/ETC, or hopelessly compromised by willingly gushing out heaps of Intel-designed 9/11 Tabloid Crud.

    Now as the Fake 9/11 Ops scale back operations, we identify the people trying so hard to fool you.

    Latest Audio by Fintan Dunne on this topic is now online.

    http://breakfornews.com/TheCIAInternetFakes.htm

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    WING TV HALL OF SHAME

    Alex Jones = Big Brother

    Jack Blood Sells Out

    Mike Ruppert Unmasked

    Rense Dupes Audience

    GCN Exposed Big-Time: Insider Speaks Out

    http://www.wingtv.net/shame.html

    Fintan Dunne also accused "the late" WingTV themselves of being CIA assets. I used to post on Mike Ruppert's long defunct board, back in '02 or thereabouts, and everybody was pointing fingers at everybody else, even then. I usually take most of this stuff with a grain of salt, but still, it can make you wonder.  ::)
  • Debunker criticism I agree with: When some truthers insist that speculation is the same as truth or proof. It isn't. When some truthers call people government shills simply for disagreeing with them. I've seen this combined...ie..."If you don't agree that theory X is true then you must be a CIA disinfo agent."

    I think it's unrealistic to expect that all 9/11 skeptics are acting in good faith. Then we have the problem of honest disagreements over theories and strategies. One would hope people would try to conduct themselves in a respectful manner. That would definitely help. IMO, the real problem is the conduct of the political/media establishment. They have gotten away with outrageous conduct...ie...deceit, propaganda, fearmongering, intimidation and authoritarianism.
  • Thatsmystory wrote:

    Debunker criticism I agree with: When some truthers insist that speculation is the same as truth or proof. It isn't.

    You're right.

    When some truthers call people government shills simply for disagreeing with them. I've seen this combined...ie..."If you don't agree that theory X is true then you must be a CIA disinfo agent."

    Yeah, or else you're a dupe or a "useful idiot." Hey, I may be a dupe and an idiot, buster, but I'm definitely not useful. Hmm... let me rephrase that...  ;)

    I think it's unrealistic to expect that all 9/11 skeptics are acting in good faith. Then we have the problem of honest disagreements over theories and strategies. One would hope people would try to conduct themselves in a respectful manner. That would definitely help.

    Agreed, although I can get pretty rude with some people.

    IMO, the real problem is the conduct of the political/media establishment. They have gotten away with outrageous conduct...ie...deceit, propaganda, fearmongering, intimidation and authoritarianism.

    Or, the real problem could be that "we the people" let them get away with it.

    So, whaddya think, plane or missile at the Pentagon, hijackers or remote control, Osama or CIA-Mossad, LIHOP or MIHOP, or... 
  • MinMMinM
    Posts: 444
    Rep. Dana Rohrabacher links WTC 1993 bombing to OKC bombing and 9/11 in 15th anniversary speech - February 26, 2008 | 911Blogger.com
    Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R) sees broader 9/11, OK City and WTC '93 plot and coverup - Democratic Underground
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    McCain Lobbyist's Plane Flew Saudi Royals After 9/11
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    Was Miss Vicki (Iseman) a "swallow"? - Democratic Underground
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    The Raw Story | FBI documents contradict 9/11 Commission report

    author said:


    I think Iseman was (is?) a Honeypot. McCain's Lewinsky.


    Speaking of 'Honeypots'
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    5G/HR. HOOKERS - New York Post
    Mark Brener, the 62-year-old alleged ring leader from Monmouth Junction, NJ, .. had two Israeli passports ..
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    Online Hooker Ring Busted - March 6, 2008

    A GOVERNOR RESIGNS: OVERVIEW; McGreevey Steps Down After Disclosing a Gay Affair - New York Times
    Aides to the governor, a Democrat, said the affair was with a former aide, Golan Cipel, who was hired by the governor in 2002 as an adviser to the state Office of Homeland Security. He resigned eight months later as a special adviser to the governor, at a salary of $110,000.

    Golan Cipel was Israeli. So here we have again a governor, compromised by sex, and open to blackmail.
    Spitzer taken down by Mossad?
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    Israeli Zionists BLACKMAIL NY Governor Eliot Spitzer in retaliation for "insubordination" | Wake Up From Your Slumber
    Honeypot (espionage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
    http://www.blackopforum.info/index.php/topic,25.0.html
    Was the Spitzer scandal "reverse engineered" from a wiretap? - Democratic Underground
    Democratic Underground - Is The SPITZER Scandal The Result Of Another BUSHCO. DOJ HITJOB Like Gov. Siegelman? - Democratic Underground
    Alberto Gonzales was involved in the Spitzer investigation - Democratic Underground
    Democratic Underground - TPM: Bank Records Mass Scanned...ABC: Bank turns in Spitzer.... - Democratic Underground
    Spitzer called the blackmailer's bluff......... - Democratic Underground
  • I think Iseman was (is?) a Honeypot. McCain's Lewinsky.

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    TRIBUTE TO THE INTERNATIONAL COALITION FOR MISSING ISRAELI SOLDIERS
    HON. TOM LANTOS OF CALIFORNIA
    IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

    Wednesday, May 24, 2000

    I would like to take this opportunity to wish the Coalition great success at this upcoming event and recognize the leadership and staff of the Coalition for the remarkable work that has been done by Coalition Chairman Daniel Eisen, and the Coalition staff members: Brigitte Silverberg, Reya Eisen, Daniel Ehrlich, Daniel Grisarou, Gittel Davis, Gedalya Gower, and the Coalition's Washington representatives Alyza D. Lewin and Vicki Iseman.
    http://www.mia.org.il/trib.html

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  • DoctornoDoctorno
    Posts: 234
    I can't see all these people as being into a conspiracy. Most of them are well meaning people.

    Some of them pick up the smallest shreds of a conflict and amplify it, and feed their egos

    I think the Only Israel did it gang is stuck on stupid. This kind of back and forth finger pointing makes for muddy water. One can't block fighter protection without lots of help from the top of the Admin and the military. One can't force Bush to sign an order disarming pilots in July of 2001.  Israel can't plan the 27 targets to hit that Rummy had on his desk on 911. Or set tens of thousands of US troops just over the border with Afghanistan that Bush and Condi placed months prior.

    I think the peak oil folk are misguided and have psychological blinders on as they want to believe they, and perhaps only they have found a Rosetta stone when they say there are no alternatives and we are all going to die. 
    Of course, If You are unknowingly hauling water for the MIC by making it easier for troops to go into the Mideast because of a peak oil "reality" , I can see Troops going in under the rationale that they are getting even for 911 and since those bastards did it to us, we have a right to control their Resources for 100 years.

    To me, Peak Oil has a Huge Value for the above as a Justifier for Occupation in order to keep the game going.

    When I point out to Ruppert the alternatives like Ethanol from Cattails fed free sewage which can net 150 Billion gallons of Ethanol which is half what we use in oil total and more than we need for transport, AND the mothballed by Classification as a Strategic reserve the Gull Island field inside the northwest corner of the Prudhoe Bay Lease area. Or the closed off potential fields off of Florida and California all the way north to Seattle but I am running out of breath,,,,,

    Nothing comes back in the way of a refutation. Mike just keeps to himself, quiet, stewing in his melancholy and that is sad, since He is a good chap and the world needs him.

    Gull Island is bigger than Ghwar in Saud which has given the Saudis 3/4 of their oil for over 50 years.

    The gov. of Alaska had a press release in 2004 stating Alaska had a 200 year supply of oil and gas for the asking. Using easy oil and gas in Alaska and the NWT no one talks about makes a lot more sense to me than having toxic stew leftovers in Alberta from tar sands that if it ever got out of its earth dam catch basins, the rivers downstream would never recover.  Thermal Depolymerization may be able to convert the Tar Sands without ruining the environment, but that technology seems to have been shelved. TDP alone could convert garbage and ag waste to light crude for 11 dollars a barrel (1999 Dollars) Only 4 billion barrels, about what we import.

    If we can have alternatives like TDP and Ethanol, we will all die, of old age.

    Part of 911 Truth should be a realization that Big Oil and the M.I.C. are joined at the hip.

    We can break that unholy bond and make it very difficult to wage wars for profit if there are two or three Energy alternatives allowed.
  • PurpleHazePurpleHaze
    Posts: 717
    Doctorno wrote:

    I can't see all these people as being into a conspiracy. Most of them are well meaning people.

    Who are well meaning people?

    Some of them pick up the smallest shreds of a conflict and amplify it, and feed their egos.

    I'm still not following you here, exactly. Ego is the root of all evil, no doubt.

    I think the Only Israel did it gang is stuck on stupid. This kind of back and forth finger pointing makes for muddy water. One can't block fighter protection without lots of help from the top of the Admin and the military. One can't force Bush to sign an order disarming pilots in July of 2001. Israel can't plan the 27 targets to hit that Rummy had on his desk on 911. Or set tens of thousands of US troops just over the border with Afghanistan that Bush and Condi placed months prior.

    I'm not so sure of what Bush (or any other of our "fearless leaders") can or cannot be forced to do. US Mideast policy is obviously completely lopsided in favor of Israel. Why is that? Rumsfeld was executing PNAC's plan, IMO. Checking out PNAC's membership rostrum pretty much tells me whose national interest it was serving. PNAC was put together by many of the same people who wrote "A Clean Break." http://www.iasps.org/strat1.htm Philip Zelikow said that the Iraq war is being fought for the benefit of Israel. You remember Zeilikow, I'm sure; he was the guy in charge of making sure the 9-11 investigation went nowhere.

    Zionist PNAC member Paul Wolfowitz enjoys a good laugh, at our expense...
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    Could Israel have carried out 9-11 without collusion by high US gov't officials? Probably not, but then again, who comprises the US government these days?

    I think the peak oil folk are misguided and have psychological blinders on as they want to believe they, and perhaps only they have found a Rosetta stone when they say there are no alternatives and we are all going to die.

    I'm kind of "on the fence" when it comes to peak oil, but there are obviously alternatives to fossil fuel. The problem is Big Oil's deathgrip on our energy policy, and yes, we may all die if that doesn't change.

    Of course, If You are unknowingly hauling water for the MIC by making it easier for troops to go into the Mideast because of a peak oil "reality",

    I don't remember Warmonger in Chief Bush citing peak oil as a reason for invading the Middle East.

    I can see Troops going in under the rationale that they are getting even for 911 and since those bastards did it to us, we have a right to control their Resources for 100 years.

    To me, Peak Oil has a Huge Value for the above as a Justifier for Occupation in order to keep the game going.

    The plan could've been to keep Iraq's oil off the market. The less oil available, the higher the price.

    When I point out to Ruppert the alternatives like Ethanol from Cattails fed free sewage which can net 150 Billion gallons of Ethanol...

    "free sewage?"
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    If we can have alternatives like TDP and Ethanol, we will all die, of old age.

    We'll all be guaranteed to reach 80 or 90 with TDP and ethanol?

    Part of 911 Truth should be a realization that Big Oil and the M.I.C. are joined at the hip.

    I think most of us realize that.

    We can break that unholy bond and make it very difficult to wage wars for profit if there are two or three Energy alternatives allowed.

    "If" and "Allowed" being the key words there, I guess.

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    *****************************************************

    AIPAC TRIAL POSTPONED INDEFINITELY!

    A judge has again delayed the trial of two pro-Israel lobbyists after prosecutors indicated they may take an unusual pre-trial appeal of a ruling on what classified information the defense may present to the jury.

    At a hearing today in federal court in Alexandria, Va., Judge Thomas Ellis III postponed indefinitely the trial that had been set for April 29 for the two former employees of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman

    Messrs. Rosen and Weissman were charged in 2005 with conspiring to receive classified information and pass it on to journalists and foreign diplomats.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    !?

    OMG! I was kind of joking when I said there would not be a trial on the last date they said. This is becoming a running joke.

    April 20th 2006
    May 23rd 2006
    August 7th 2006
    October 7th 2006
    June 4th 2007
    September 19th 2007
    Janurary 16th, 2008!
    April 29th 2008!
    errt March 20 2008 Trial suspended indefinately!

    There you have it 9 date changes and not just an ongoing delay. Who rules your country? Not a peep about this in the MSM. And you have to digg to find it on alternative media. Nothing is more taboo than the lobby.

    Guess I dont have to hurry to finish my film now. I was racing against the April 29th date. War by Way of Deception. When iti s out it will be linked on WRH.

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    http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?p=85588#85588

  • PurpleHazePurpleHaze
    Posts: 717
    Actress Cho says Americans will be angry when they realize true agenda behind attacks
    Prison Planet
    Thursday, March 27, 2008

    Top comedian and actress Margaret Cho has joined Willie Nelson and Charlie Sheen in questioning the official 9/11 story, stating that the public were going to become very angry when they realized there was a conspiracy behind the terror attacks.

    Appearing on the nationally syndicated Alex Jones Show, Cho said her doubts about 9/11 were sparked by President Bush's non-reaction to the unfolding crisis.

    "I got concerned right after 9/11 where the plane had hit the World Trade Center and he was in that classroom with all those children and they told him what was going on and he did nothing," said Cho.

    "We were attacked for the first time on American soil and he did nothing - that's when I realized there was something very very wrong," she added.

    Cho questioned the official story of what happened at the Pentagon, asking why so much footage of the twin towers being attacked was available in comparison with not even a clear picture of what occurred at the Pentagon - a far more sensitive and symbolic target.

    "Why are they not focusing on that? What are they hiding?" asked Cho, "Of course it's going to be monitored from every angle at every second and yet we have no footage of it - it's very mysterious."

    Cho said that there was usually a conspiracy behind every major event in American history and that when the conspiracy behind 9/11 was fully uncovered, people were going to be very angry.

    The actress said that many of her Arab-American friends doubted the organizational skills of Al-Qaeda in being able to pull off the terror attacks and questioned the plausibility of the passengers on the plane not fighting back against the hijackers.

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2008/032708_top_comedian.htm

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