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Security Lapse in Dallas?
  • Has Obama himself, or his campaign staff, made any public comment about this? Did Obama actually mingle with the crowd? I could see a handgun getting smuggled into the event, but if there was an appreciable distance between the podium and audience, that would seem an unlikely method of attack. I've read that crowds aren't always screened going into other politician's rallies, either, so this may not be such an extraordinary occurence. I shudder to think, though, about the amount of ammunition (no pun intended) the assassination of Obama - or either of the other two major corporate candidates - would give the gun confiscation crowd. I can see Hillary now, with Barack's picture beside her, gushing crocodile tears and pledging to disarm every American citizen if she were selected as the War Party's next frontman. (er, frontwoman) 
  • Obama did "press the flesh" at the Dallas rally, which could've made him vulnerable to a close up attack. His campaign has made no comment on the security issue.

    image
    Barack Obama greets supporters in Reunion Arena. Not everyone in the crowd was searched for weapons.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Nick Shapiro, a spokesman for Obama in Texas, said the campaign would have no comment on whether there was a security breach in Dallas. He referred questions to the Secret Service.

    Eric Zahren, a spokesman for the Secret Service in Washington, said precautionary measures went as planned for the Obama rally. "There were no security lapses at that venue," Zahren said. There was "no deviation" from the "comprehensive and layered" plan, implemented in "very close cooperation with our law enforcement partners," he added.

    Zahren rebutted suggestions by several Dallas police officers at the rally who thought the Secret Service ordered a halt to the timeconsuming weapons check because long lines were moving slowly and many seats remained empty as the time was nearing for Obama to appear.

    "It was never a part of the plan at this particular venue to have each and every person in the crowd pass through the Magnetometer," Zahren said, referring to the device used to detect metal in clothing and bags.

    The Secret Service may have been doing all it could at the rally, said Keith Howse, a lawyer and consultant for security concerns and a former assistant police chief for the sprawling Baylor Health Care System.

    Howse, who was not at the rally, said the Secret Service may have been screening the people closest to the candidate while letting others go in unchecked who were seated far away in the spacious, 17,000-seat arena.

    "It may have ended up not being the best of all worlds, but it might not have been a flat-out security breach," he said, adding: "I think it's important to understand that the Secret Service would not sink below minimum protection" for a presidential candidate.

    On Friday, Clinton appeared at outside rallies in Dallas and downtown Fort Worth.

    Bomb-sniffing dogs searched the grounds at both locations, and federal sharpshooters were perched atop buildings, but those in attendance were not routinely searched for weapons.

    http://www.star-telegram.com/dallas_news/story/490522.html
  • PurpleHazePurpleHaze
    Posts: 717
    Jesse Ventura Warns Of Obama Assassination Attempt

    The context of Ventura’s warning was a discussion about new evidence concerning the assassination of Robert Kennedy, after it emerged that there were additional shooters to accused assassin Sirhan Sirhan.

    "I say this in all seriousness - watch out Barack Obama," he added.

    Ventura is not the first to warn of a potential future assassination attempt on Obama - British Nobel Prize winner Doris Lessing said in February Obama would be taken out if he became President.

    Some speculated that Obama had been set up for an assassination attempt during a February 20 rally in Dallas, after it emerged that Secret Service gave the order to stop screening for weapons a full hour before the event began.

    Click below to listen to the full interview with Ventura.

    http://www.infowars.com/?p=1240

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  • PurpleHazePurpleHaze
    Posts: 717
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  • DoctornoDoctorno
    Posts: 234
    author said:


    Has Obama himself, or his campaign staff, made any public comment about this? Did Obama actually mingle with the crowd? I could see a handgun getting smuggled into the event, but if there was an appreciable distance between the podium and audience, that would seem an unlikely method of attack. I've read that crowds aren't always screened going into other politician's rallies, either, so this may not be such an extraordinary occurence. I shudder to think, though, about the amount of ammunition (no pun intended) the assassination of Obama - or either of the other two major corporate candidates - would give the gun confiscation crowd. I can see Hillary now, with Barack's picture beside her, gushing crocodile tears and pledging to disarm every American citizen if she were selected as the War Party's next frontman. (er, frontwoman) 



    This is also My fear and, as I discovered,  Jesse Ventura made a similar comment
  • PurpleHazePurpleHaze
    Posts: 717
    author said:


    author said:


    Has Obama himself, or his campaign staff, made any public comment about this? Did Obama actually mingle with the crowd? I could see a handgun getting smuggled into the event, but if there was an appreciable distance between the podium and audience, that would seem an unlikely method of attack. I've read that crowds aren't always screened going into other politician's rallies, either, so this may not be such an extraordinary occurence. I shudder to think, though, about the amount of ammunition (no pun intended) the assassination of Obama - or either of the other two major corporate candidates - would give the gun confiscation crowd. I can see Hillary now, with Barack's picture beside her, gushing crocodile tears and pledging to disarm every American citizen if she were selected as the War Party's next frontman. (er, frontwoman)   



    This is also My fear and, as I discovered,  Jesse Ventura made a similar comment


    The shock value would be at least equal to 9-11, and we know how much they gained from that.

    I'd vote for Ventura. ;-)

    image

    "No party, no nothing," Jesse told the news service, adding that his campaign message would be, "Elect someone who truly is not controlled by special-interest money. With me, you would get a true check and balance."
    Associated Press - 4/16/04 

    "I can beat these guys — and they need to be beaten," Ventura said. "We have a two-party system in America and it sucks." 
    The Sentinel - 2/21/05 

    “If we lie to the government we go to jail. If they lie to us we go to war,” Ventura said. 
    Collegiate Times - 3/16/05 

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  • PurpleHazePurpleHaze
    Posts: 717
    In Huckabee Joke, Gun Aims at Obama

    May 17, 2008
    LOUISVILLE, Ky. — Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor, was known for his sense of humor on the presidential campaign trail, but on Friday he startled listeners with his latest improvisation, an imagined gun pointed at Senator Barack Obama.

    Speaking at the annual convention of the National Rifle Association here, Mr. Huckabee, a Republican, was interrupted by a loud noise from backstage. “That was Barack Obama,” he said. “He just tripped off a chair. He’s getting ready to speak and somebody aimed a gun at him and he — he dove for the floor.”

    Mr. Huckabee soon apologized for his comments.

    Mr. Obama’s safety has been an issue. When he was assigned Secret Service coverage last May, it was the earliest point in a campaign that a candidate had been given protection. His wife, Michelle, has voiced concerns about his safety.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/17/us/politics/17huckabee.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
  • PurpleHazePurpleHaze
    Posts: 717
    Clinton invokes RFK assassination in summer 1968 among reasons to stay in race; later apologizes
    Friday May 23, 2008

    Sen. Hillary Clinton, in defending her decision to continue running for the Democratic nomination that almost certainly will go to rival Sen. Barack Obama, invoked the shooting death of Sen. Robert F. Kennedy in the summer of 1968.

    "My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right?" Clinton said to the editorial board of the Sioux Falls, S.D. Argus Leader. "We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California.

    "I don't understand" the calls to exit the race, she added.

    The Obama campaign responded to Clinton's statement, saying, "Sen. Clinton's statement before the Argus Leader editorial board was unfortunate and has no place in this campaign."

    Clinton apologized for the remark, saying, "I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation and in particular the Kennedy family was in any way offensive. I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever."

    The New York senator later elaborated, saying, "My view is that we have to look to the past and to our leaders who have inspired us and give us a lot to live up to and I'm honored to hold Sen. Kennedy's seat for the state of New York."

    In early March of this year, Clinton made a similar RFK remark in an interview with Time: "Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn't wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June, also in California. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual."

    Sensitivity to even the humorous suggestion of assassination in this campaign season has been high, particularly in regard to Sen. Obama. Former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee found that out recently when he kidded about Obama ducking a gunman, a spontaneous quip he later apologized for.

    http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Clinton_defends_staying_in_Dem_race_0523.html
  • DoctornoDoctorno
    Posts: 234
    It's past time Hillary Clinton Bush went to Her secret mountain lair and wrote Her Memoirs.

    If something happened to Barack, You can be sure the Republican nominee would inherit the Whitehouse since after this latest quip, few in flyover country would vote for Her.

    Maybe that is Bush's secret NWO plan, since why else would the NeoCons invest Murdoch to do 4 hour daily luncheons with Hillary training her how to sound like a Conservative?
  • PurpleHazePurpleHaze
    Posts: 717
    image

    Possible Obama connection in gun arrest
    By Felisa Cardona
    The Denver Post
    08/25/2008

    Federal authorities have scheduled a press conference for Tuesday afternoon amid reports that a fortunate traffic stop by Aurora Police may have disrupted an assassination attempt against Barack Obama.

    KUSA-TV is reporting that two men have been arrested on weapons charges after the traffic stop early Sunday.

    The first man, identified by the station as Tharin Gartrell, 28, was charged with suspicion of being a felon in possession of a weapon after police found two rifles, a high-powered scope and methamphetamine in his car after the traffic stop.

    When police accompanied Gartrell to his hotel in Glendale, a second man jumped from a window and was injured in a four-story fall, according to the station. That man was then arrested, but has not been identified by police.

    Federal authorities are refusing to comment about why they believe the case is possibly tied to an assassination plot, but scheduled a news conference for 4 p.m. Tuesday.  http://www.denverpost.com/nationalpolitics/ci_10300246?source=email

    Tharin Gartrell (What, no middle name?)
    image

    Aug 25, 2008
    Police Investigate Possible Plot To Kill Obama

    DENVER (CBS) ― CBS station KCNC-TV in Denver has learned at least four people are under arrest in connection with a possible plot to kill Barack Obama at his Thursday night acceptance speech in Denver. All are being held on either drug or weapons charges.

    KCNC-TV Investigator Brian Maass reported one of the suspects told authorities they were "going to shoot Obama from a high vantage point using a ... rifle … sighted at 750 yards."

    Law enforcement sources tell Maass that one of the suspects "was directly asked if they had come to Denver to kill Obama. He responded in the affirmative."

    The story began emerging Sunday morning when Aurora, Colo. police arrested 28-year-old Tharin Gartrell. He was driving a rented pickup truck in an erratic manner according to sources.

    Sources told KCNC-TV police found two high-powered, scoped rifles in the car along with camouflage clothing, walkie-talkies, a bulletproof vest, a spotting scope, licenses in the names of other people and methamphetamine. One of the rifles is listed as stolen from Kansas.

    Subsequently authorities went to the Cherry Creek Hotel to contact an associate of Gartrell's. But that man, who was wanted on numerous warrants, jumped out of a sixth floor hotel window. Law enforcement sources say the man broke an ankle in the fall and was captured moments later. Sources say he was wearing a ring with a swastika, and is thought to have ties to white supremacist organizations.

    A third man -- an associate of Gartrell and the hotel jumper was also arrested. He told authorities that the two men "planned to kill Barack Obama at his acceptance speech."

    That man, along with a woman, are also under arrest.

    The Secret Service, FBI, ATF and the joint terrorism task force are all investigating the alleged plot.

    The U.S. Attorney in Denver has scheduled a news conference for Tuesday afternoon.

    http://cbs13.com/cbsnational/assisination.plot.obama.2.802884.html
  • PurpleHazePurpleHaze
    Posts: 717
    Fed official: Colo. men no true threat to Obama
    Tuesday, August 26, 2008 
    The Associated Press 

    DENVER (AP) — A group of suspected drug users arrested in Denver this weekend with methamphetamine, guns and bulletproof vests made racist threats against Barack Obama but posed no true danger to the presidential candidate as he accepts the Democratic nomination here this week, federal authorities said Tuesday.

    The three men — all said to be high on methamphetamine when arrested — are the subject of an assassination investigation, but so far, authorities say, it appears they had no capacity to carry out any attack on Obamahttp://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2008/8/26/376822.html

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  • PurpleHazePurpleHaze
    Posts: 717
    Thanks for the links. Strange stuff. Do you think they were actually intended patsies, MinM?

    One thing that struck me as being peculiar (or weird) was the caliber of the "assassination rifle." The 22-250 is a relatively small varmint cartridge, firing a light bullet that would be running out of steam at 400 yards, let alone 750. It'd be unlikely that one could kill or even seriously wound a man at that distance with that round.

    Barack Obama 'ought to be shot' says racist plotter
    CBS4 reported that one of the suspects told authorities they were "going to shoot Obama from a high vantage point using a ... rifle ... sighted at 750 yards".

    VIDEO AND STORY: (tweakers, man...)
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2627300/Barack-Obama-ought-to-be-shot-says-racist-plotter.html

  • MinMMinM
    Posts: 444
    Rove appointee called off FBI investigation into Obama plot

    "KUSA - 9Wants to Know has learned three men in Denver planned to assassinate U.S. Senator Barack Obama during the Democratic National Convention in Denver by sneaking into one of his events and shooting him with a gun hidden inside of a camera, according to federal court records.Nathan Johnson's girlfriend, whom 9NEWS is not naming because she's a juvenile, said it would have to be a suicide mission."

    I don't know why this hasn't been reported on in the media, but I found this information today, and its concerning. Remember the alleged murder plot against Obama, planned to take place during his acceptance speech? Well, as we all know, the FBI released a statement the next day claiming that there was no evidence of an imminent threat against Obama.

    But according to this news story,  http://www.9news.com/news/l ocal/article.aspx?storyid=9 8992&catid=222

    the FBI did want to pursue charges, but the investigation was called off by Attourney General Troy Eid, an appointee of Karl Rove.

    There are several recent blogs on this info, but only one story on Google's news page: http://www.cqpolitics.com/w mspage.cfm?parm1=5&docI D=hsnews-000002944767

    Eid is denying any lax work on his part, but I think the whole situation still sounds suspicious. Why would you NOT press charges against people who make a threat on a public official? Who is he to determine (above the inquiries of the FBI) that such a threat would definitely not be pulled off?

    Here's one of several blogs about the story:

    http://dneiwert.blogspot.co m/2008/09/fbi-wanted-obama- plotters-charged-but.html

    The reason I even found this story was because I did a quick search of "Obama,Rove" since Obama referred today to McCain's campaign as a "Karl Rove campaign."
  • MinM wrote:

    Rove appointee called off FBI investigation into Obama plot
    http://www.theyoungturks.com/story/2008/9/7/1456/09961/Diary/Rove-appointee-called-off-FBI-investigation-into-Obama-plot

    Rove could've suggested/promoted the appointment, pulled strings, etc, but he couldn't have appointed Eid by himself, so I think that header is misleading. I don't know why Eid called off the FBI. It could be that the Obama plot was obviously just so much hot air that it didn't warrant further investigation. Of course, if these had been Muslims or Russian nationals we might've seen a whole different reaction. (Israelis would've just been sent home, flying in first class)  ;)

    KUSA - 9Wants to Know has learned three men in Denver planned to assassinate U.S. Senator Barack Obama during the Democratic National Convention in Denver by sneaking into one of his events and shooting him with a gun hidden inside of a camera.

    I think the "gun in the camera" story was related by the one of the underage girls caught in the hotel room. I could be wrong. But, there was no "modified camera" among the items seized, or any handguns. It'd take a really big camera to conceal a hunting rifle inside.

    "Aurora Police found two rifles, ammunition, bulletproof vests, walkie-talkies, wigs and fake identifications in the pickup truck that Gartrell was driving when they pulled him over Aug. 24. One of the weapons was stolen from Kansas."

    A few things I'd like to know are what kind of rifles, exactly, were these, what condition were they in, and had these guys ever actually even fired them? Trying to pick somebody off at 750 yards would be no mean feat; you'd have to be a damn good shot and have a very accurate weapon as well. Good marksmen could certainly do it, but they sure as hell wouldn't be tweaking (just breathing will make the crosshairs move around, let alone being amped and jittery!) and they wouldn't use a 22-250 (a small game round) for a shot at that distance. Of course, in the media reports I've seen, this is being called a "high-powered sniper rifle." It's sensationalism.

    Eid is denying any lax work on his part, but I think the whole situation still sounds suspicious. Why would you NOT press charges against people who make a threat on a public official? Who is he to determine (above the inquiries of the FBI) that such a threat would definitely not be pulled off?

    Eid was probably advised by his own state investigators that these guys were just looney, hoodlum, big talking tweakers. (Which I think they were) I think they're all in jail now, aren't they? On the other hand, as you say, why not let the FBI try to dig deeper if they wanted to? Not that I have that much respect for the Federal Bureau of Incineration, but what would be the harm in this case?

    The reason I even found this story was because I did a quick search of "Obama, Rove" since Obama referred today to McCain's campaign as a "Karl Rove campaign."

    I spotted this story a couple of days ago, but I'm not too crazy about David Neiwert, whose blog it appeared on, so I didn't do anything with it. I agree with the guy in some areas, but he's such a mainstream Democrat Party hack; anti-gun, anti-9/11 Truth, anti-Ron Paul, anti-Nader, anti-everybody except whatever current front man the Democrats are trying to force feed us. He even claimed that Michelle Malkin had been "roughed up by Alex Jones' thugs" at the Democrat convention. In short, the guy's a frequent liar with an agenda, so I looked at his article with some skepticism.

    MinM, I can't stand McCain or that hideous bitch Palin, but in truth, if Barack Obama was hit by a meteor from space and died tomorrow, it wouldn't make any noticeable difference as far as where this country is headed. Obama is not opposing the military-industrial complex, he's working for it, just like his "opponent." JFK pissed off the mafia, the CIA, the MIC, and the Federal Reserve. Apparently, he actually thought he was in charge and could change things. Obama, like McCain, will play ball with the power structure, right down the line. I think he's probably safe. It's the rest of us I'm worried about.
    ----------------------------------------------

    "All the wingnutosphere is gaga today over St. Michelle Malkin's mugging at the hands of Alex Jones' thugs. Alex Jones is a far-right nutcase. I know it's hard to imagine, but the guy actually manages to make Malkin look sane, decent and normal in comparison. You'd think that the wingnuts would figure out that these people are protesting Democrats. They're not on our side." - David Neiwert, Tuesday August 26, 2008

    "Despite the ideological divide that separates Glenn Beck, who recently did a segment on his show accusing Paul of being a "terrorist" along the lines of Timothy McVeigh, and David Neiwert, a self-proclaimed "professional journalist" and resident left-blogosphere "expert" in right-wingology, both have come out with very similar assaults on the Paul campaign. Neiwert, whose recent series of blog posts attacking Ron Paul takes the same line as Paul's neoconservative critics, gives the Paul-is-Hitler meme a "leftist" patina.

    Neiwert presumes to act as a gatekeeper to authoritatively delegitimize any and all ideas held to be "extremist" or "radical Rightist." If you question the value of public education, you're an "extremist." Hate the IRS? Watch out, or you'll fall prey to "radical Rightists." He writes his books, articles, and blogposts – and bases his entire literary reputation – on the supposed existence of a radical Right threat, which he and his fellow "experts" have "studied," albeit with none of the cold-eyed objectivity of the scientist but rather with a clear agenda in mind: extreme political correctness of the leftist variety."  http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11905
  • It's late, and I need to trundle off to dreamland, (insomnia be damned) but I just saw this piece by Chris Floyd. Normally, I'd have stuck this in one of the Obama threads, but I think it's appropriate here, too, as a follow up. Doctorno just commented in another thread that this is an extremely depressing election year, and I have to agree 100%. I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can be excited or enthusiastic about Barack Obama. I must've missed my dose of the special Kool-Aid, or never received a pair of the magic glasses that enable so many people to see him as a knight in shining armor, coming to bring us "change we can believe in." No matter how hard I look at it, all I can see is McCain = Bush, and Obama = Bush, and in truth I don't think it'd make much difference if either candidate was run over and squashed by a Hostess Twinkie truck tomorrow morning. Can anyone tell me why the powers that be would want either of these guys done in?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    September 5, 2008
    Surge Protectors: Obama Embraces Bush-McCain Spin on Iraq
    by Chris Floyd (excerpt)

    Barack Obama has now declared -- on Fox News, no less -- that George W. Bush's escalation of the flagrant war crime in Iraq has "succeeded beyond our wildest dreams." He also proclaimed his "absolute" belief in the "War on Terror," and pledged, once again, "never to take a military option off the table" (not even the nuclear option) against the "major threat" of Iran.

    In short, he continued his relentless campaign to purge himself of any of that weak-sister "anti-war" taint that got attached to him in the early days of his campaign -- which was, of course, responsible for his phenomenal rise in the first place. He rode that wave to national prominence -- trading on the desperate hopes of millions of Americans that the ungodly criminal nightmare in Iraq might finally end -- but it was obvious long ago that he was never going to dance with the ones that brung him. Once it was clear that he might really make it all the way to the top of the greasy pole, he began a dogged campaign to prove to our ruling elite that he would be a "safe pair of hands" for the imperial enterprise.

    We've seen this in, among other things, the shameful FISA vote, the bellicose threats to launch incursions into Pakistan (a policy which the Bush Administration is already implementing, with the usual deadly results for civilians), the ritual and repeated assertions of his willingness to attack Iran, and the foolhardy promise to shepherd Georgia's entry into NATO -- a mirror-image of Dick Cheney's stance, and a policy guaranteed to ratchet up tensions with Russia and quite possibly spark not only a new Cold War but a hot war of horrendous proportions if Georgia pulls its future NATO treaty partners into another conflict with Moscow.

    But it is Obama's surrender on the Iraq War front -- or rather, the anti-Iraq War front -- that is most striking, and most disheartening. On the very night that John McCain was putting the "success" of the surge at the center of his campaign, Obama was openly, cravenly laying down one of his chief weapons at the feet of Bill O'Reilly. Obama's cheerleading for the surge -- "beyond our wildest dreams!" -- surpassed anything that McCain himself has claimed for the escalation.

    Obama also emphasized the obscene and morally depraved position that has become the Democrat's standard line on Iraq: that the lazy, no-good Iraqis "still haven't taken responsibility" for running "their own country." The arrogance and inhumanity of this position is staggering, almost indescribable. The United States of America invaded Iraq, destroyed its society, slaughtered its citizens, drove millions from their homes, occupied the country and made itself the ultimate master and arbiter of the conquered land -- but still the Iraqis are condemned for "not taking responsibility for their own country."

    Not a single Iraqi attacked America. Not one. America's action has killed more than a million Iraqis. But it is the Iraqis who are now "responsible."

    Not only has Obama validated McCain's position on the surge, but his and the Democrats' stance on the Iraqis' "responsibility" also completely buys into the Bush Faction's lie that the "government" of Iraq -- installed at the point of foreign guns, with a "constitution" based upon the arbitrary directives of an occupying power -- is somehow legitimate. This stance too validates the "success" of the entire war: "Hey, they've got a legitimate government there now, so they need to take responsibility for their own country."

    This bears repeating: the Democrats' position on Iraq fully accepts -- and even celebrates -- the Bush Administration's fundamental claims for the war. The war has established a legitimate, democratic government in Iraq, Bush and the Democrats both say. The "surge" has succeeded "beyond our wildest dreams" in "securing" Iraq, Bush and the Democrats both say. When "conditions on the ground" are right, America should withdraw its "combat troops" from Iraq, leaving behind an unspecified number of troops for training Iraqi security forces, conducting counterterrorism operations and providing security for other American personnel and reconstruction projects, Bush and the Democrats both say.

    Where then is the actual difference -- the evidence for genuine "change" -- between these two positions? While the Democrats will occasionally assert that instigating the war was a "mistake" -- because we should have been fighting more wars elsewhere -- they steadfastly refuse to denounce it as an illegitimate and criminal action. And, as we have seen, they agree almost entirely with Bush on the results that the war has produced. The rhetoric is different, of course, and each side denounces the other in the usual partisan bickering -- but the fundamental agreement is undeniable.

    And now Obama has made it explicit: a success "beyond our wildest dreams."

    But let's put the disturbing implications of Obama's stance aside for a moment, and deal with the facts of his statement. Is the surge really a "success"?

    Well, yes, it is. The "surge" -- which in addition to an influx of troops included the ruthless ethnic cleansing of Baghdad, the walled ghettoization of vast swathes of the city, and the arming and funding of violent sectarian militias across the land -- certainly succeeded in extending the duration of the murder, suffering and chaos engendered by America's armed and belligerent presence in Iraq.

    This is the "success" that exceeds all dreams, according to the Democratic candidate for President of the United States -- the voice, you'll recall, of hope and change.

    But there is no hope in Obama's stance on Iraq today, which does not differ in any fundamental way from that of George W. Bush or John McCain. And given the Democrats' agreement on every front with Republican positions -- on Iraq, Iran, Russia, the War on Terror, authoritarianism, offshore drilling, etc., etc., etc. -- there will be no change come November either

    http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/090608Floyd.shtml